At Bitch Ph.D. there is a long thread on the sexism of South American men which is, according to many of the commentators, more severe than that of United States men. I already had reason to disagree, but then I got an e-mail to my professional address, from a man who owns a local store I sometimes patronize.
Let the record show that he is a pleasant sort and/but fiftyish, overweight, and I have always assumed, married. A few months ago, he and I exchanged a flurry of phone calls because he believed he was about to come into possession of a used-but-good hardwood dance floor that someone was pulling up. It was going to be sold for almost nothing. I was going to buy it, so as to replace the horrid vinyl I have in my kitchen, laundry room, and sun room. He ended up not getting the floor. I said, call me if you get another, I am still interested.
While I was in Chile, I got e-mail from him, did you get my phone call? Of course I answered. I thought, here’s my floor. But no, it was some sort of social call, as became crystal clear when I spoke with him on my return. I told him I was always glad to make new friends, but I was not available for dating. Meaning, of course, that I was not interested in dating HIM, but why throw that in his face? Now I have received this e-mail:
Not available for dating? Mind if I ask why not? I too am always happy to have a friend. I am not available for dating because I am married. I am however more than available to be a friend, confidant, lover, or whatever, as long as I get to chat with you every now and then.
You have a quality about you that has made you unforgettable. I know it sounds insane, but it is true. While you are not the most beautiful lady on earth, I find you to be among the most desirable. I hope I haven’t caused any trouble or anguish for you and I will be willing to not contact you again should you so wish. Let me know if I can call or not, and if I can call, what is the best time?
So much for the Enlightened European-American Male. And as my youngest brother would say (and he is both Black and Latin, so take that, if you who read this should be a minion of Anglo superiority-think), ninguém merece isso [nobody deserves that].
Axé.
coldhearted scientist وداد 
Oh my, he seems to feel he would be doing you a favour. How ungracious his attempt to sound gracious. But, there are such men everywhere.
yeah ive always found it gets las mujeres real hot and ready when i start talking about how not pretty they are. way to go, smoothie!
what a puto…
I think “Bitch.com” pretty much says it all to me.
Hi, I can plainly see! Do you mean there is a satire site? Expliquez-vous please, we are interested! 😉 –Z
My answer to the e-mail was:
“Look, I don’t really know you. So I am not yet sure what we would have in common to be friends. One big difference I can see is values: I don’t have friends who offer to cheat on their spouses. It isn’t a compliment to be asked. And I do not find you attractive, although I had hoped not to be pressed into saying that in such a baldfaced way.
Anyway, given the situation, all I can really suggest is, sometime when you and your wife have a party, invite me. Perhaps we’ll all find we enjoy each other’s company and have things to talk about, and perhaps we won’t. Or if y’all are going out or something, and want to meet up with me and my friends, that is cool also.”
His answer to that was: “Ouch.”
I find it difficult to believe he has not gotten this response quite often over the years, but my baby brother says he may not have.
“While you are not the most beautiful lady on earth, I find you to be among the most desirable.”
That is a winning line. Loser.
I’m not following the story. What is the race of this prize worth having man?
As far as the big picture, what he has done is so bad for business. Who would want to buy from him now?
He’s white, Cajun name, so I guess we could call him Latin. I would say, he’s Anglo!!! But this is exactly the behavior they are complaining about on Bitch PhD as existing in Latin America and not here. Bad for business, that was my first thought. –Z
i spent about a week in a Nahua community in Mexico over the summer. the men there never touched me. it is a cultural thing they have about personal space. they didn’t even shake hands–you would sort of tap the palm of the person you were greeting with your finger tips and say “i pass by you” in Nahuatl.
It was refreshing. to have so much personal space, to sleep in a room with dirt floors and bamboo walls with 3 other people and *still* have personal space.
You see, that does not exist in the U.S. At least, it has been my experience of it. men put their hands on me everywhere here. they never ask for permission and they have followed me (which is scarry because I don’t have a car and i walk a lot at night). and they have whispered shit in my ear up close and honked from far away [luisa cringes as she remembers hot, stank breath in her ear “hey baby”]
***
anyways, i guess that was the “all about me” section.
This guy is a jerk! you should have e-mailed him back and said “Sorry, I am too smart for you.” Don’t you hate listing reasons when all you should have to say is “no” without excuses or apologies? It is ironic how women try so hard not to offend in the face of offensive behavior.
and as for those Bitch commentors:
I think that U.S. sexism seems so normal to them that they might not notice it. it is like racism against black/indigenous folks in south america. it is different but the U.S. is still an incredably racist society. they are expressed in different ways.
I know this kind of thing happens all the time and I could say a whole bunch of intellectual stuff about it, but I’m too busy picking my chin off the keyboard.
Picking chin off keyboard, I know that’s right! –Z
!Hola Luisa! This is one of the things I really enjoy in Latin America – especially NATIVE Latin America, but even in mestizo/whitish Latin America – You can be at close quarters with all of these people, and *still* have personal space. It is soooo cool.
Here, in my middle class neighborhood, I walk to the store or to the park in normal looking clothes and at normal hours (aka before 10-11 PM), and guys in cars stop or slow down to ask if I ‘need a ride’ (i.e. if I am actually ‘walking the streets’). Once a cop car did it!!!
Too smart for you-know-who, yes, but that’s included in ‘I am not attracted…’ … and Bitch PhD commentators, yes, sexism so notmal to them that they don’t notice it, yet they are eager to pick everyone else apart. THAT is racism/white supremacy, ‘American style’ (although racism in Latin America is severe in its own way).
P.S. on that Bitch PhD site, I just realized who she and hers remind me of: DAVID STOLL!!! Yes, David Stoll. I realize this comparison is unusual on its face (similar to the comparison I made recently, in person, between Santiago de Chile and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, two places one would not normally think of comparing). What, then, is the BPhD / Stoll parallel? Well, Stoll swears to all the gods that he is on the side of the Guatemalan people, knows them, appreciates them, understands their situation. As BPhD claims to be a ‘liberal’. I, however, am with the Free Slave on this matter: do not trust liberals.
This is one of those big cross-cultural questions: how does one measure more or less sexist? in some places sexism is more overt and codified, in other place it’s more covert but just as codified, and can be just as dangerous to flout. As someone pointed out somewhere else, a response that might be interpreted with just an “ouch” in one place might be interpreted as an affront that could escalate to more violent response in another. I still remember the first time I was in Spain (in 1976 and I was 18) sitting at a sidewalk cafe, when a man walking by with a bunch of friends sat on my lap as a “joke.” I pushed him off angrily (because from my perspective he was violating my personal space and being rude) and he almost attacked me, screaming insults. I was confused and afraid, but the waiter intervened. I realize now that part of his response was his perception of being publicly humiliated by my overtly angry rejection rather than the required feminine smiling humorous accomodation or non-smiling dignified but lady-like rejection that would have allowed him to preen in front of his friends. I’d have a different response if it were to happen to me now, but then now that I’m a lot older and men in Spain are no longer making so much public noise at women as they used to thirty years ago, I haven’t had a chance to try it out! But my daughter has remarked to me recently how many men are turning around and staring at her here: “Mommy, people in Spain look at you more”. It’s because she’s 12 and looks 15 and is lovely. I HATE that I’m am having to teach her about how to distinguish between the daily micro-doses of sexism and potentially dangerous situations, in two different cultural contexts. Now that she will be walking home from school alone on two different continents, I KNOW she will have some of the experiences I had at her age. IBTF’ingP.
Yes, it is the F’ing P, that. But the Bitch PhD types are oohing and aahing about how much more dangerous it is in Spanish speaking countries than in the U.S. And the story recounted here is more complicated and drawn out than what I have told … this person would not go away but kept phoning and sending messages, complaining about how I was ignoring him. And I recently turned down a similar (although less gross) proposition in S.A. and got a far safer and far more polite reaction. As in, yes, you’re right, and I’m sorry. –Z
Gosh how did you resist that?
You mean, fucking this guy? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 🙂 –Z
Whoa.
I have developed some default responses I use in some cases. Most of them are intentionally brief. In this case, I might have written: “You embarrass yourself.” Period. Without a signature, as if picking up something dirty with a stick.
Actually, I originally learned to do this when I was working with thirteen-year-old juvenile delinquents in Miami, who would sometimes test you by saying with great mirth incredibly inappropriate things to you out loud in front of others. The best way to handle it, I decided, was without emotion, saying immediately and with a flat face “Inappropriate.” and moving on as if it hadn’t happened (taking the “fun” out of it, not giving them the satisfaction of having “rattled” me because, in fact, I wasn’t rattled–it was rather like training puppies).
I realize we’re talking about something quite different here, but then again, are we? I mean, those boys years ago, who were really just “playing” and trying to learn how to wield their power, taught me many good lessons, of which this is one.
(Please don’t misunderstand me here. I’m not suggesting that I think men need to be “trained.” I just mean that if a man acts like a thirteen-year-old boy who hasn’t learned to respect himself or women–no matter where he is or hails from–I’m going to try to dismiss him as summarily as possible. Life is hard enough If these guys realized how unattractive their puny little dicks really are when they’re waving them around like that, they’d stop.)
Excellent point, Changeseeker! 🙂
What is this, “you may not be the most beautiful woman in the world, but” business? Is that supposed to be some sort of backhanded compliment?
Aw jeez, the whole thing’s just too funny and too sad.
Yes – and I’m not, but my grade is B, not C, D or F! And you should see this guy – about my height (which is short, even for a woman) and at least twice my weight, and not very much hair. 😉 –Z
We were talking about catcalls and propositions with the students, just back from their Christmas month in Spain. They developed this response: just call the guy “sinverguenza” (shameless b******).
I remembered the line I developed at seven to deal with such things: “?No le da verguenza hablarle asiii a una ninya?” [Do you not feel ashamed, sir, to talk that way to a child?] !!!
hey now. you say “short” like that isn’t sexy.
Well … call me conditioned … it’s the obesity I’m not into. I mean, I’m not criticizing it, but I’d really have to be in love or something to…uh, “do” someone really fat like that.
I love the line from when you were seven. It’s perfect for women of any age. All you have to do is substitute the word “nina” for “mujer” or “madre.”
Hi Melissa! A friend of mine in S. Paulo used a version of that, when she was (almost) mugged (there are a lot of muggers in S. Paulo). She said, “Are you not ashamed to mug a mother?” He said, “In fact, I am; I didn’t know,” and went away. !!!
Fascinating discussion. Takes me back to experiences I had in other countries. My experiences lead me to believe that one who is “different” in any sense is vulnerable, all the more so if female. I wish I’d known to use your line (“No le da verguenza…”) when I was a child!